Author Topic: Gear-Warning  (Read 5037 times)

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Sebastian (BY)

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Gear-Warning
« on: June 29, 2014, 08:08:41 AM »
I have a question/problem regarding the gear warning of the CNv.

I used a reed-contact for the spoilers and a relays for the gear (electrical gear).
The gear warning works as it should while flying, but it always makes a warning-sound when the spoilers are used on the ground even when the gear is down.
It realizes that the gear is up or down, because it tells me on the screen either "SPOILERS" when the gear is down or "GEAR" when it is up.
First I used closing-relays and had to select the "reverse sense" option in the CNv utility. After the german Clearnav-representative told me that this "reverse sense" may cause some trouble I changed it to openers and used the normal  sense on the utility. It didn't change it's behavior. While I tried this the CNv had no GPS-connection (in the hangar).

As I see it the CNv gets the right inputs because it changes the screen from "SPOILERS" to "GEAR" accordingly. And it works in the air, but I need to use the spoilers on the ground as well, as the brakes are connected to them. So leaving it like this isn't a good option for me.

Any ideas what I could change?
Any help would be much appreciated.

Best regards,
Sebastian
Sebastian Eder
ASW 22BLE
Austria

Chris Hostettler

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Re: Gear-Warning
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2014, 02:20:28 PM »
Hi Sebastian,

I use the landing flap position on my ASW27 instead of the brakes - makes more sense. With Schleicher flapped gliders I always land with L because ailerons move up getting you better roll control.
Therefore I can do with the brakes whatever I like. Mounted the read switch beside the left battery compartment with the magnet on the flap actuator tube and the read switch glued to the luggage compartment floor. Same would work for the 22.
After landing the alarm will go off about 1 minute after standstill.
The feature is wanted to prevent pilots to take off with the brakes not locked.

Cheers
Chris Hostettler
VH-XCH
CH

Evan Ludeman / T8

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Re: Gear-Warning
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2014, 06:11:10 PM »
The way it is supposed to work:

At take off, open spoilers results in a "Spoilers" warning. 

In flight (with gear up) open spoilers results in "Gear" warning.

With gear down during landing and roll out, alarms should be silent.  After some short period of time during which CNv switches state from "flying" to "waiting for take off" (based on GPS and/or ASI) and then open spoilers will once again result in a "Spoilers" warning. 
Evan Ludeman / T8

Sebastian (BY)

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Re: Gear-Warning
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2014, 11:17:43 PM »
@Evan

So it actually does what it should?
The "SPOILERS"-text in the display is no problem before start, but the sound is not great as I need to use the spoilers to brake waiting for the start with the engine running.

Any way to get the warning-sound silenced before the start? For example no sound below 30 or 40 kph?



@Chris
Thx for the suggestion, but I don't always land in the landing-position. Especially with high wind speeds I want the glider to stay a little more agile for landing. Also this isn't for the 22 as I don't have an electrical gear on that one :))
Sebastian Eder
ASW 22BLE
Austria

Evan Ludeman / T8

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Re: Gear-Warning
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2014, 04:37:07 AM »
The warning logic can of course be changed. 

I get these warnings too (I routinely start aero tow with spoilers open until aileron control is well established).  I turn down the volume (you cannot turn the warning audio off by design) and find this makes things tolerable. 

The argument against changing the logic as you suggest is that the pilot that's made a mistake is preferably warned before he's moving....



Evan Ludeman / T8

Sebastian (BY)

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Re: Gear-Warning
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2014, 06:00:47 AM »
If the minimum-warning-speed before take off would be changed to 10 or 20 kph GPS-speed the pilot would be warned early enough, but could still brake before taking off.

To turn down the volume before start and turning it up again after take off isn't a nice option. If things get hectic one could easily forget to turn up the volume again for quite some while and wonder why the audio isn't working on the vario. Even more so if different persons fly on a glider and not all are very familiar with the CNv (as I could witness on the factory-Quintus a couple of weeks ago when I had to disable the gear-warning for the pilot because he was going crazy on the taxiway).

Another easy option is to install a piezo-buzzer (costs only about 2$) and use the two relays I already installed. Should be only a couple of minutes of work and result in an easy gear-warning that's not as intelligent as the CNv gear-warning (before take off - after landing - gear out - spoilers out..), but should do the simple trick to remind me to get the gear out before landing.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 06:04:28 AM by Sebastian (BY) »
Sebastian Eder
ASW 22BLE
Austria

Evan Ludeman / T8

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Re: Gear-Warning
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2014, 06:11:20 AM »
I'll pass this along. 

Evan Ludeman / T8

Sebastian (BY)

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Re: Gear-Warning
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2014, 06:31:56 AM »
OK, thx.
Sebastian Eder
ASW 22BLE
Austria

Sebastian (BY)

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Re: Gear-Warning
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2014, 11:44:34 PM »
Hi,

any news on this topic?

We have to get the gliders ready for Leszno in the next couple of days and if the software won't be changed (in time) I have to get and install the piezo-buzzer before leaving.
So a heads-up would be nice if the developers are going to alter the software.

Greetings,
Sebastian
Sebastian Eder
ASW 22BLE
Austria

Evan Ludeman / T8

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Re: Gear-Warning
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2014, 04:53:38 AM »
I don't know when this will be addressed.  It's definitely not viewed as a problem requiring a bug fix release, in fact it's not viewed as a problem at all.  Many of our users routinely start with spoilers open on the roll (as do I) and don't find the current logic objectionable.

It's probable that a user option for gear-only warning will be added at some point.
Evan Ludeman / T8

Sebastian (BY)

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Re: Gear-Warning
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2014, 06:17:37 AM »
Thx for the info.

As we don't want another source of loud noise/distraction at the start (engine is loud enough) I am going to disable the gear-warning in the CNv and install the piezo-buzzer.
I hope that the software will some day be changed to gear-only-warning or to a certain minimum-speed for activating the warning so that one can start rolling with open spoilers for a couple of meters or taxi on the ground with gliders like DG800, Arcus M, ASH31Mi, Quintus and others which have a steerable tailwheel and might also have their wheel brake connected to the spoilers.
Sebastian Eder
ASW 22BLE
Austria

SteveKoerner

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Re: Gear-Warning
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2014, 08:33:46 PM »
As another voice on this subject...  please consider getting a gear only warning option in place as an important / priority update (its easy after all).   My own experience has been that having an unneeded and quite loud alarm going off when I'm trying to concentrate on the critical launch is really unacceptable.  My solution is to launch with the vario off then turn it on later.  That has problems too.  This is a bug that needs fixing. 

I would also point out that when one's routine operations require you to ignore a loud alarm sound, guess what might happen on landing when you hear that sound on the rare happenstance that the gear isn't down and locked?


Evan Ludeman / T8

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Re: Gear-Warning
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2014, 04:12:50 AM »
Steve:  I suggest that you try turning the volume down for take off.  In this state the alarm is audible, but not loud.

CNv development guys have been working full time on stuff that isn't easy.  More about that later.
Evan Ludeman / T8

Sebastian (BY)

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Re: Gear-Warning
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2014, 12:37:16 PM »
As another voice on this subject...  please consider getting a gear only warning option in place as an important / priority update (its easy after all).   My own experience has been that having an unneeded and quite loud alarm going off when I'm trying to concentrate on the critical launch is really unacceptable.  My solution is to launch with the vario off then turn it on later.  That has problems too.  This is a bug that needs fixing. 

I would also point out that when one's routine operations require you to ignore a loud alarm sound, guess what might happen on landing when you hear that sound on the rare happenstance that the gear isn't down and locked?

Hi Steven,

my suggestion is that you buy a 2€ piezo-buzzer and install it.
That's easy, cheap and does exactly what you want and nothing more.

When you stop your engine or release from the aerotow in a nice gaggle of fourty or so gliders at the competition and are trying to center that whooping half meter of lift it is better to look outside rather than trying to toy with your instruments to get it to the audio-level you want.

Maybe that's more of an issue in Europe with our big competitions of 100 and more participants in not so great weather, but the core-element should be true in most areas of the world.

Just my 2cents
« Last Edit: September 09, 2014, 12:42:03 PM by Sebastian (BY) »
Sebastian Eder
ASW 22BLE
Austria

Evan Ludeman / T8

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Re: Gear-Warning
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2014, 03:48:03 AM »
Update:  In the next release we will provide a provision for dismissing the spoilers warning (until the next state change). 

editorial comment: "Gear Only" is probably better for some users, we get that. 

Evan Ludeman / T8